posted April 08, 2003 11:02 AM               

But removing the gray figure modeling on the later covers was just silly.

It ruined the cover of # 62 and # 67 looked particularly stupid with the yellow highlighting preserved but the grey highlighting gone!! I actually altered the intended art. And for the worse to my mind. I know they had grey because they didn't change Wotan's face to green on More Fun Comics # 56!!

This isn't like a miscolored boot on Green Lantern (originally a mistake) but the original presentation of the art as it was intended to be seen.

I wish the restorers would resist the urge to over-correct.

I like the fact that the Spectre started out with grey (like smoke or billowing clouds) and that Aquaman once had yellow gloves.

Now I'm actually afraid of the hoped for Dr. Fate Archives. In the original Dr. Fate stories, for example, DC's original colorists experimented with a beautiful orange cape. I actually like it better than the yellow one. I hope it doesn't get "corrected" to the modern version. Will they add gloves to Dr. Fate in the stories where he doesn't where them? Will they "correct" the appearance of his helmet in his first appearance? Kent Nelson has grey-brown hair in his first apppearance, will that be "dyed" blond?

I hope not.

I like the Archives to depict not the current "trademark" but the history of how the character was published. The costume variations aren't "mistakes" to be corrected. They were hopeful experiments on the early versions of these characters.

I'd like the Archives to record those experiments even though the characters may have moved beyond them.

------------------
Bgztl a/k/a Jack Holt

All of human wisdom is summed up in two words: wait and hope.

posted April 08, 2003 01:55 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Bgztl:
I finally got to sit down and read the Spectre Archives. I didn't mind the color shift on Spectre's costume in the stories or even on the cover of More Fun # 52 (much anyway).

But removing the gray figure modeling on the later covers was just silly.

It ruined the cover of # 62 and # 67 looked particularly stupid with the yellow highlighting preserved but the grey highlighting gone!! I actually altered the intended art. And for the worse to my mind. I know they had grey because they didn't change Wotan's face to green on More Fun Comics # 56!!

This isn't like a miscolored boot on Green Lantern (originally a mistake) but the original presentation of the art as it was intended to be seen.

I wish the restorers would resist the urge to over-correct.

I like the fact that the Spectre started out with grey (like smoke or billowing clouds) and that Aquaman once had yellow gloves.

Now I'm actually afraid of the hoped for Dr. Fate Archives. In the original Dr. Fate stories, for example, DC's original colorists experimented with a beautiful orange cape. I actually like it better than the yellow one. I hope it doesn't get "corrected" to the modern version. Will they add gloves to Dr. Fate in the stories where he doesn't where them? Will they "correct" the appearance of his helmet in his first appearance? Kent Nelson has grey-brown hair in his first apppearance, will that be "dyed" blond?

I hope not.

I like the Archives to depict not the current "trademark" but the history of how the character was published. The costume variations aren't "mistakes" to be corrected. They were hopeful experiments on the early versions of these characters.

I'd like the Archives to record those experiments even though the characters may have moved beyond them.

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posted April 08, 2003 03:13 PM               

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posted April 08, 2003 05:59 PM            

The story that Adams re-inked was so incredibly ugly, in my eyes, compared to the original that I was shocked. The Spectre colour shifting is a lot more subtle and less disconcerting.

I am very, very disappointed that the Adams Batman collection coming out later this year will have several (4 of 9?) re-inked stories. If I wanted Image-style looking comics, I can get them from the $0.25 bins a lot cheaper.

posted April 08, 2003 07:00 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Osgood Peabody:
Correction - some of the Adams Batman stories in the upcoming collection have been recolored, not reinked.

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In the interest of full discloser, Adams and his crew did shift word balloons around, tweak art, and reletter portions. Here's a quote from his web site: "What's Neal been doing for this awesome book? For starters he's been touching up any pages which he feels could use it. Things like that. Also, when Neal drew the books, letterers and paste up people didn't exactly follow his requests. heads were cut off by borders or cut in half. Balloons went over art when it wasn't necessary. Early inkers simply missed the point of the storytelling of stories. Neal was drawing at a level comics hadn't reached yet and subtleties were simply missed or worse... erased."

Link, for pix:
http://www.nealadams.com/bathardbook.html

I, for one, am not ordering this book based solely on the hideous travesty which was the Deadman collection.

posted April 08, 2003 08:56 PM               

quote:

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Link, for pix:
http://www.nealadams.com/bathardbook.html

[/B]

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Case in point: The original of this image became the classic representation of Batman in the '70s. Look at it now: Batman's cape has been altered to distraction; the color highlights are garish; Batman's wearing a "modern" utility belt (in the original image, taken from a Joker story, he wasn't even wearing his belt).

posted April 09, 2003 01:00 AM            

There is no way that I can put my hands on that comic but maybe it will tickle someone's memory.

posted April 09, 2003 02:45 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Average:
NI - I don't think that is the original. I'm pretty sure it's in the Batman story which has a cover of Batman attached to a playing card held by the Joker. The collector's edition took the image and, if memory serves, mirror imaged it. The Adams web page has the orientation correct but, ARGH!, those colours! What is he thinking?

There is no way that I can put my hands on that comic but maybe it will tickle someone's memory.

That was THE coolest comic I had as a kid.

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The story is reprinted in the Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told. The image on the collector's edition is a new image and it appears that the one from the Adams website is new, too. The position of the fingers on the trailing hand and the size of cape is different on each. Also, his expression and chin are different. The collector's edition cover is closest to the original but there are enough differences to make me think it's a recreation.

Also, Roccomorroco noted that in the original, Batman is not wearing his utility belt. He is wearing it, but it is a very thin belt, unlike the thick one on the collector's edition cover and the Adams website.

posted April 09, 2003 02:59 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Age Adam:
This calls into question how the restoration is taking place. Are the books being checked against the original printings to flag such errors? Just curious.

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You know, I wondered the same thing. Perhaps the directive was simply to change the Spectre's gray costume to white. I still object to that, but this was obviously taken much too far. Removing the grey tones that were used as shadows or for figure modeling and muscle definition just made Bailey's and the colorists' original, beautiful work look like it was done by a hack -- when, in reality, they are some of the most effective covers of the Golden Age.

# 62 is still the one I keep shaking my head over.

I just muttered "why?" again before I opened the thread.

And, as an aside, "Gee, who's this Neal Adams guy? Did he draw any good Golden Age books?"